Eldouble

The Clown Hatchery

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Eldouble   

Some have read my "Home Breeder" posts on my in-house clownfish breeing setup. But it is a true business... I am certified with the state as an aquaculture facility, and have all state and federal licenses to sell wholesale or to the end user. I am pretty small, and first batch of clowns started last month. But so far, my stores have had zero losses and everyone is pleased with the fish. Im currently producing about 500 healthy fish a month and should have around 1500 a month by summer. I'm looking to expand my sales area from Tallahasse to include as many stores as possible from Pensacola to Jax. If any stores are interested in stocking Clown Hatchery fish, please let me know. I hand deliver all shipments to guarantee quality, and will visit the western panhandle stores every two weeks if I can get 5 stores on board. Our website is http://www.ClownHatchery.com' rel="external nofollow">

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Eldouble   

I will be at the Academy sporting goods store on Sunday from 12-1. If any member is interested in some clownfish, please let me know. 1 for $15, 2 for $25 or 5 for $50.

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mgarden   

I tried to sell both clowns (clarks) and h.erectus seahorses to local stores from PC to Pensacola. I personally visited the stores, sent out color brochures, emails ect. I got very little interest. Basically it came down to cost per fish not quality of fish/live stock. I had periodic luck with a store in Tally for our seahorses and some luck locally but orders were not regular. You may have better luck if you have unusual clowns or keep the prices below what they can get the fish from their regular supplier for. There comes a point when it the cost to raise fish on a "small scale" isnt profitable. Customers have to value aquacultured live stock more than wild caught and be willing to pay the additional fee. I wish you luck and success. I know how difficult it is to become successful in raising the food in the quantities to take the fry to maturity. Let alone the TIME and money it takes to devote to scaling up for production. I was told to open an e-bay store but shipping mostly water is expensive. Best wishes!

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Eldouble   

Seahorses would be a great addition to our Aquaculture both at the fair. Do you have any right now that are hardy enough to show for a week? I dont think too many people would buy from ebay since one fish ends up costing $50- $70 shipped. But I may do that with my Picassos when they start breeding. I will never be able to compete with the $4.50 ocellaris, but the 2 LFS here I sell to, even they have about 30 - 50% loss rates from ORA. Im at zero losses so far with all my fish sold. There is a lot to be said for that.

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scootman   

That would make an interesting display. Everyone loves seahorses. I gotta hand it to ya but I think the aquaculture booth is a cool idea and I hope you guys do well with this promotional campaign. Please take pics of the booth and displays. Post them for everyone to see.

Scoots

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Oh no.... it just occurred to me that as negative a light your webpage casts on the entire hobby to those who already know that stuff, your booth is going to do incalculable damage among those who don't, and in the state Capitol, no less.

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Eldouble   

I feel that our booth promoting aquaculture will be beneficial to the industry as a whole as most people don't even know that breeding fish is possible. If my webpage casts a negative light on over-harvesting, then sorry for stating the facts. If more people would buy aquacultured products at a slight premium in price.. store owners especially, then the ornamental aquaculture groups will continue to grow, and take the burden of the wild populations. Hawaii has put limits on collection, primarily to protect Yellow Tangs. These fish spawn regularly in large aquariums. Just noone has made the effort to raise them as it is was too cheap a price to compete. Now someone will give it a go. It was impossible, then too expensive to breed mandarines... but now it is possible and cheap enough to compete thanks to some hard work by a few garage breeders. Tonga rock collection is now shut down, so Tampa Bay Saltwater's Aquacultured rocks will now look cheap compared to no rock at all. Its easy to breed basslets and pseudochromes... but wild from haiti at $.75 a piece, there is no financial incentive. I can't compete with wild clowns, and can barely compete with ORA clowns. But I am able to keep supplying my customers with healty, hearty fish that they are very happy with, and call me every week for more. Even with a slight premium on price. People want a fish that they know will live, and we all know buying wild fish is a risk. Did you offer a guarantee on all your marine fish when you sold them??? I doubt it. Thats also why this site has list of fish not to buy... To keep impossible fish out of the aquariums and safe in the ocean. I'm not the only one that thinks this way.

Aquaculture is the future for the industry.... no doubt about it. But if we let the 2 big companies cotrol the market, then everyone is going to loose. I sold 5 fish to a couple in your area that told me they could not find clowns, even big name aquacultured clowns, that looked healthy enough to put in their tanks. I think we all need to support aquaculture, do it now, and elect smart enough people that will not vote for the ridiculous bill H.R.6311 that was intoduced to congress. Again like I said in my reply to your PM... it will never make it out of committee in its current form. Here is a link to view its progress...

Miles Lee

Miles@ClownHatchery.com

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6311' rel="external nofollow">

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scootman   

All I can say is that I am a supporter of aquaculture. I think public awareness is a great idea and very educational.....so I don't see how the booth is a bad idea.

Scoots

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Oh no.... it just occurred to me that as negative a light your webpage casts on the entire hobby to those who already know that stuff, your booth is going to do incalculable damage among those who don't, and in the state Capitol, no less.

I hope you are joking. You made a statement without backing it up with facts.

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Just look at his site, and you'll see what I mean. I'm all for aquaculture and education and such, but not when done so recklessly backhandedly, seemingly attempting to get wild import banned just to drum up sales. It would be a bummer if we got really really good at breeding everything only to lose all access to broodstock in the process. The booth IS a great idea and people will love it and maybe learn something. I just worry about WHAT they'll learn and more importantly, how they'll interpret it.

And as it happens, I DID offer a full guarantee on all my fish, even the marine ones. After undergoing my six-week process of quarantine & conditioning, they were the best fish that money could buy and I backed them up fully.

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Eldouble   

Here is the quote from my site:

"Clownfish are the most popular fish in the marine aquarium industry, and are being removed from the wild by the thousands every month. Unfortunately, wild clownfish are notoriously bad at surviving the shipping process and easliy succome to the "Clownfish Disease" called Brooklynella. Some in the industry believe that less than half of all wild caught clownfish, actually survive more than a few weeks in captivity. These are very bad odds for the wild populations on the reefs."

No where does it say I want to ban imports. I put the information out there to let the consumer decide if they want a wild fish, or ask for a tank raised fish. So far in my LFSs, they have all but stopped ordering fish from other sources. One does still get shipments from the islands, but out of the last 20 hes ordered, 12 have died. But I bought one myself to pair up with another fish. Im not a tie dye wearing radical, waving a "Save the world" flag, chanting "Stop the Imports of Clownfish" and picketing the Capital. I'm simply breeding and selling fish, which is helping minimize the impact on a natural resource. I do not expect the colletion of wild fish to decrease anytime soon, but every little bit helps. And if in 20 years, aquaculture can support 90% of the hobby... thats great. But there will always be a need and demand for wild broodstock. But if that happens, I will be the one that has to pay $500 a fish, assume the risks of it dying, and pass on the reward to the end user with tens of thousands of their heathy offspring.

Kudos for you offering a guarantee, and long term quarantines. No store I have ever heard of has done that. You were one in a million.

And good luck on your renewed farm operation. I hope people will support you and your aquacultured products.

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scootman   

AnOldSalt,

Apparently, you and I are arriving at different conclusions after reading the same material. I have visited Miles' site many times and have not interpreted his site as a "reckless" nor "backhanded" attempt to do anything. Just a simple explanation of aquaculture and its benefits, not a diabolical scheme of some sort.

I'm scratching my head and trying to understand how this is anything but a positive pursuit for our hobby and the world's aquatic ecosystems. Out of respect for all involved, I will be glad to debate my interpretation but prefer to do it via PM.

Separate note: Bravo to you for the excellent QT procedures. I wish more folks would follow your lead.

Respectfully,

William Moody

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DrHank   

Miles I had to go no further than your home page to find this statement: You would never buy a wild cat or dog... So why would you buy a wild fish? Honestly, I don't care for it. You're efforts to breed captive clown fish is commendable. There are however many fish that can only be gotten from the wild. Fish which do well in an experienced reef keepers tank.

I'm sure that you could come up with a more appropriate slogan. This could unintentionally add fuel to the fire with so many groups trying to ban the importation of marine aquarium fish.

I didn't go beyond your home page because frankly I did find this offensive. I' sure that that was not your intention but I do wish you'd rethink this slogan.

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scootman   

Offensive??????? I guess I'm just not getting it guys.

Is the wild cats/dogs comments what is setting all this off? Just seems insignificant to me....Again, I'm just not getting it.

Scoots

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scootman   

Doc:

You said--- "There are however many fish that can only be gotten from the wild."

This is very true, but also proves the importance of more exploration into captive breeding. I ecently read Matthew Wittenrich's book and have learned a great deal about the challenges with captive breeding various fish. Some fish, like clowns, attach their eggs to a structure and they are in a fixed location until hatching. These fish are the ones you will typically see available as captive bred species because it's fairly easy to isolate the eggs and raise the fry.

Other fish are pelagic spawners and they release their eggs into the open water. These eggs are difficult to collect and rear. The larvae aren't as well formed and their nutritional needs are more difficult to meet. Tangs, angels, butterfly fish and many others are pelagic spawners. These are the species where captive breeding is still in its infancy. II see your comment as the exact reason why further exploration of captive breeding should be encouraged and rewarded.

Sorry to ramble on here.....obviously you can all tell that I'm a big supporter of aquaculture.

Peace & Love,

Scoots

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Eldouble   

The site and slogan have been up for months and this is the first time I've been attacked for it. I was first attacked with a PM that didn't specify what was so offensive, so I assumed it was info of mortalities. So I answered the PM to that affect. Then it was taken to my board, which I have paid for in support of the website, and still I was attacked with no explaination as to the exact offense. But now I know...

The slogan is aimed at the new hobbyists that have no idea that many fish are captive breed. It is a simple way to make them think and ask themselves if they had a choice, which one should they buy. If I changed it to specify wild clownfish, would it make it less offensive to the reefers and exotic fish keepers? I really don't aim at offending anyone, but obviously I didn't feel it was inappropriate. I also have wild caught fish in my display tank, and a quarter of my broodstock are wild fish, so I don't want a ban on wild collection. If you go through my site, you will see its for informational purposes only. I'm not conducting direct sales or promoting the banning of wild collection. I wish this could have stayed I'm PMs or even email, instead of filling up my paid for vendor listing. I don't think that was what the vendor forum is intended for. Please email me at miles@clownhatchery.com with any other personal views or comments. Thanks,

Miles

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I'm going to have to agree with you Miles. You paid for your space on the Vendor page and everyone should respect your thread.

PLEASE PM OR EMAIL MILES WITH QUESTIONS OR CONCERNS ON HIS WEBSITE

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Chris   

I was going to stay out of this but I really want to say something....

I like the slogan and think it brings up a very touchy sort of, unspoken subject. Fish are not treated like a wild dog/wild land animal would be treated. Fish are treated worse. 1/2 the fish die before making it to the wholesaler, then from that 1/2 they die between the shipping, handling and being thrown in a sub par Fish vendor. THEN, countless die in peoples aquarium because of the people. How many of you have had ALL your fish live for 3 years? How about 1 year? Not many.

My point is if land animals were treated in this manner FEMA would still be screwing you years after you died of old age, You'd be all over Animal Planet as a villion, you WOULD be in jail. Look at Mike Vicks case, if a fishes life is worth as much as a dogs life(I believe it is) then he did no worse to dogs than we do to fish. We just don't see it. THEY SCREAM TOO, WE JUST DON'T HEAR IT.

To me the only reason people are offended is because their desire to have that one nice fish has killed countless others in the process. When buying a fish you have to accept this or chose another route. There is no way around it. EXCEPT......AQUACULTURE.

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Well, from tallahassee to destin there is no place to buy fish and you should just start a fish store business. Then you could join the reefers and make lots of money. I am from Panama City and have to drive to Fort Walton Beach (almost 2 hours away) before I get to a good store with healthy fish and a good price. What a shame, and an opportunity for someone!

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scootman   

Miles,

Have you had a chance to meet any of the local fish store owners over this way? I'll be glad to introduce you to the LFS owners I know.

Scoots

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Eldouble   

After an 11 hour trip, nearly getting arrested, and almost breaking my kneecap.... Clown Hatchery Fish are now available in these local stores:

Aquaria in Pensacola

Matts Coral Connection in Ft Walton

Ritas in Ft Walton

Suncoast Aquariums in Panama City Beach

Please stop in and have a look when you can at all these stores.

As for details... When I got to Matts Coral Connection, the sign said closed, but the door was unlocked so I went in with my fish expecting to see Matt. I looked around and didn't see anyone, so as soon as I turned around to go back to the car and get my cell, the alarm started going off. Apparantly someone set the alarm but never locked the door. All three employees and the police showed up to meet me :)

And when I got to Aquaria, I was carrying the fish in one hand, and my 2 yr old in the other. I misjudged the height of the curb, and tripped. I was able to keep them both from injury, but busted up my knee pretty good.

But its all worth it to get more high quality tank raised fish to local enthusiasts. Hopefully we can keep a good supply of fish in the area. And as soon as we have more species available, this forum will be the first to know.

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