[luckysnapper]

Ok let me try and dispel any mystery surrounding me and what I do. I am not an LFS and I am not an internet retailer. I have a business name, Exquisite Reefs, that I buy and sell marine fish and corals under. This is not my day job but it helps me fund my reef habit. I look at it like this.. it is good for the club members because they can buy at a discount and it is good for me because it helps off set the cost of keeping reef tanks, I currently have 5 running in some form or another.

I am not out to make a big profit off of anyone especially club members. There are just too many vendors in this hobby looking to rip people off and it really gets under my skin. Here is an example of what I have seen

HighDefCorals is selling Acan frags on reef central 5 for $219. My link I have these same frags in my display, and some that I think are even better looking and I know that they cost wholesale so there is no reason to make someone pay 4-6 times the wholesale price for a tiny frag. With cost+shipping+profit I could sell these for less than half of what they are pushing. Don't even get me started on designer chalice corals.....

Please dont think that I am bashing any one vendor because I fully believe in the free market and if they put it out there and someone is willing to buy it go for it... I also believe in free competition as well so if I can do the same for less and help out some fellow club members and reefers so be it.


So here is my vision for my little coral business.. It will come in 2 parts.

For the first part I want to try to start propagating my own frags here in my home and have some plans to build my own frag tank from scratch. Should be 60 long by 36 wide and 14 tall. It should be enough to allow me to grow frags and keeps some inventory here for people to see. I really want this to be a resource for the club and I hope that everyone can get a benefit from it. The more I do this the better I will get at it and the pricing will start to come down even more. The number one thing that drives up price is not the cost of the livestock its the shipping involved. The more quantity that I am able to buy the better I will be able to spread the cost out. It really all comes down to the members.. If they support this it will work and everyone will benefit if not I will continue to buy for myself and look elsewhere.. I don't give up easy.. I have a vision and a drive to succeed !!

Part two : I am trying to get in good with a couple of suppliers so that I can get set shipping rates and try to start advertising on Reef Central and other form sites. Then I can start drop shipping to customers. There will also be a website in the future if I can get things running..

Here are some questions that I get..

Q)Do you have a store?
A)No. But you are welcome to come to the house any time you want and check out what I have. Just give me a call and we can arrange a time.

Q)Do you have a lot of corals in stock for me to see ?
A) Not really, Because I am only doing this part time I can't afford to carry a full inventory. You are welcome to see what I have in my display to get an Idea of what I can get and you can also look at the pics that I post on the forum.

Q) How do we buy stuff from you ?
A) Orders are placed on a per customer request. I'll post pics and you place the order and can normally have it in 24-48 hours. The best way to place orders is for someone to give me their wish list and then I can go and see whats out there and give them example pics and pricing.

Q)How is your pricing compared to my LFS ?
A) I can beat your LFS 99.99% of the time because the typical LFS has to triple the wholesale cost of the item due to overhead, dead loss, and shipping. I do not have to do that and that is what makes me different.

Q) What do you sell/ what can you get ?
A) Right now I have a really good supplier for LPS, Zoa's and Mushrooms & Ricordias. They specialize in Rainbow Acans in all sorts of crazy color combinations and they come in small frag sizes up the XL 14x14 slabs. They get shipments from Indonesia, Bali, and Australia. The Australian shipments are usually the best and brightest colored. They always have Hammers, Torch, Frogspawns, Favia Prisms, brain corals, plate corals, galaxia, elegance and almost any LPS you can think of. I also can get a wide range of fish and inverts from my supplier on the west coast.


Thanks for looking and I hope that I answered as many of your questions as possible. If you have any more or think I should add something to the FAQ please feel free to contact me any time. I look forward to meeting as many of you as possible in the coming months. I will try to bring a few pieces to the meetings and frag swaps and hope to help you out as much as possible.

Travis Sartele
Exquisite Reefs.
850-240-7533

[mgarden]

Ok I have a couple of more questions...

Do you have a saltwater product license issued by the State of Florida? (Anyone who sells directly to the public is supposed to have one)

Do you have a business license? (You are supposed to collect taxes and pay the State their pennies)

Do you have an aquaculture permit issued by the Florida Dept of Aquaculture? (your supposed to have one of these if you are fraging or culturing corals for resale)

Do you have extra property insurance for a "customer" to come to your house and fall in your driveway?

Looking forward to these answers....

All these things cost extra and could possibly raise someones fees for their corals.

This post has been edited by mgarden: 04 February 2012 - 10:49 AM

[engineeronh2o]

Yeah, I agree with MGarden, and even further confused.

It seems that you have a business to buy from a wholeseller at wholesale prices. So obviously you are a business. Then, why does FPRS allow you to use the Buy/Sell forum like a ad in the sunday paper. I have been battered along with others local reefers, because I and others paid full retail price for zoas and acros then grew them out and sold them to make some money towards my next purchases (from local and online vendors). I was told that I couldn't sell unless I was a sponsor and paid dues???? You are a business, buying wholesale and selling making a profit. My problem isn't with just your operation, but how FPRS allows you to get away with this and battered paying members (like myself) in the past for selling frags from grow outs?

[luckysnapper]

engineeronh2o, on 04 February 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Yeah, I agree with MGarden, and even further confused.

It seems that you have a business to buy from a wholeseller at wholesale prices. So obviously you are a business. Then, why does FPRS allow you to use the Buy/Sell forum like a ad in the sunday paper. I have been battered along with others local reefers, because I and others paid full retail price for zoas and acros then grew them out and sold them to make some money towards my next purchases (from local and online vendors). I was told that I couldn't sell unless I was a sponsor and paid dues???? You are a business, buying wholesale and selling making a profit. My problem isn't with just your operation, but how FPRS allows you to get away with this and battered paying members (like myself) in the past for selling frags from grow outs?

To answer all questions...

I have all licenses, registered business name, and adequate insurance, and I am a paying member in the forum. I can not speak for the past and how one member was treated vs another all I know is that I was a member long before I ever thought of selling here and I have been up front with the forum from day one. I paid my dues and have posted from time to time with livestock and it has not ever been a problem. Anyone who has bought anything from me has been satisfied with their purchase. Like I stated many times what I am doing is for the good of the entire forum community. I do not wish to ruffle anyone's feathers but at the end of the day you can't please everyone.

[ahabsparents]

He is a vendor and does pay the vendor rate for membership

[Chris]

If I'm not mistaken, I thought Vendors, which I now am one, were not allowed to advertise in this forum. That is why they created the "vendor" forum.

[ahabsparents]

Chris, I just read the guidelines for posting in the Buy/Sell forum, which is the first post in the forum, it says vendors can post here. If you would like the board to reconsider that, please let us know.
Thank You

[Mydraal]

I don't understand the reasons behind this. He's been a paying vendor since day one I believe. Unlike some on here that have been selling stuff continuously for obvious reasons Travis has let everyone know what he's about the whole time. He hasn't abused this forum and he's been nothing but honest with everyone as far as I can tell.

[kbass]

+1 Mydraal

[aedwards]

Mydraal, on 05 February 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

I don't understand the reasons behind this. He's been a paying vendor since day one I believe. Unlike some on here that have been selling stuff continuously for obvious reasons Travis has let everyone know what he's about the whole time. He hasn't abused this forum and he's been nothing but honest with everyone as far as I can tell.

This statement covers my sentiments as well.

[Chris]

ahabsparents, on 05 February 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

Chris, I just read the guidelines for posting in the Buy/Sell forum, which is the first post in the forum, it says vendors can post here. If you would like the board to reconsider that, please let us know.
Thank You

I really couldn't care less. I was just pointing out what I thought was obvious. I didn't realize you wanted the buy/sell section to become a "for profit" advertising section. You won't see vendors and sponsors posting on the buy/sell of any other forum for that exact reason. I'm sure Matt at Mattscoralconnection, Mgarden, Gulfarium, etc. would love to flood this forum with posts but that is not the function of this forum and never was the function of this forum. That is the function of the Vendor forum and sponsorship forums.

Also, if this is the case, why would anyone want to pay extra for their own sponsorship forum when more "hits" are in the buy/sell?

I'm not sure why some peeps are getting their panties in a wad about it. I don't have anything against Luckysnapper, I've never meet him. I'm pointing this out for the betterment of the forum. And if this is how it's going to be then ok, life will go on.

[Mydraal]

chrisalmand, on 05 February 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

I really couldn't care less. I was just pointing out what I thought was obvious. I didn't realize you wanted the buy/sell section to become a "for profit" advertising section. You won't see vendors and sponsors posting on the buy/sell of any other forum for that exact reason. I'm sure Matt at Mattscoralconnection, Mgarden, Gulfarium, etc. would love to flood this forum with posts but that is not the function of this forum and never was the function of this forum. That is the function of the Vendor forum and sponsorship forums.

Also, if this is the case, why would anyone want to pay extra for their own sponsorship forum when more "hits" are in the buy/sell?

I'm not sure why some peeps are getting their panties in a wad about it. I don't have anything against Luckysnapper, I've never meet him. I'm pointing this out for the betterment of the forum. And if this is how it's going to be then ok, life will go on.

I think some of those are valid issues. I've been trying to get more specific rules up regarding
vendor/sponsorship regulations. Its overdue, but glad to see you back on board. Lets keep these suggestions going without inappropriate comments and maybe something good will come out of this.

[engineeronh2o]

Glad to hear he is a paying vendor! I agree with Chris Almond about flooding the buy/sell forum. I would like to see this forum return to it's status of 2009 when on any given week, 2 or 3 local hobbyists sold frags and not tanks and equipment. People were excited about the hobby!

[mgarden]

My reason for saying anything was to try to explain why some people/stores charge more for their livestock & goods. I dont know who he is or really care what he is doing but when he makes it sound like stores are ripping all of us off I get worked up. I didnt say anything until he compared what he was doing to some other company.

I could be doing the same thing as Exquisite Reefs, I have a account with a pet supplier and can get all the dry goods (pumps, lights, salt, food ect) at cost and sell them out of my house at a "fair" mark up but I dont. I could also get a wholesale account with some of the west coast livestock suppliers. I have all the licenses EXCEPT for the saltwater product license. Let me point this out to all - that license costs $1500.00 PER YEAR. So if you sell fish for a profit of say $10.00 per fish that is 150 fish you have to sell just to pay for that one license alone. You can check with the State to see who has a business license (myflorida.com) and with the Dept of Agriculture on who has an aquaculture license. It is very unlikely that the state (Fish & Wildlife, Agriculture, Revenue) will find out about what people do out of their homes. Selling to the public is not my thing - too many complainers and lots of people who want to bicker with pricing. All I know is that some fish/pet stores have been around along time while others come and go. It is expensive to have a storefront and we should support those that keep their livestock well fed and healthy. I personally like to see what I purchase in person to see if the corals look heathy and if the fish are health and eating. I cant do that on line.


All that being said if you feel like your being ripped off then try somewhere else.

I dont think I was picking on anyone - just trying to compare black os to black os - not black os to saddlebacks........

This post has been edited by mgarden: 06 February 2012 - 11:53 AM

[Yardboy]

Ooo-kay!
First, the only time we "give someone a hard time" is if they aren't paying anything for a club membership, no member, no sponsor, no vendor, but expect to be able to post at will because the "Internet is free". Note that this morning the site was down, and I'll confess it's because the server and software fees hadn't been paid. The invoices weren't coming to me or Miles so we didn't know, but fixed it as soon as we saw it.

Next, Tammie has a good point about all the fees that are required to be in business, as defence against anyone complaining about the high cost of livestock at an lfs. Some people take the risk, other people take lesser risks and get popped. Still, it's not the site's place to verify that a person is a legitimate business. It's the states.
Frankly, I see Exquisite Reefs as a model for the future of reef purchasing. Clearly storefronts are very difficult to maintain. Someone who does some mail order, brings stuff to sell at meetings, goes to frag swaps. More of a "do it on my own time" without the expense of a store. My take anyway.

As for where you are posting your stuff for sale, here-in the vendor forum- in your own sponsor forum, it is something that needs to be visited. For sure if a sponsor kept their forum active then it should be a better place to advertise. Other forum sponsors only pay for space for the link to their website. Here we provide a forum (for a lot lower price) for sponsor, in addition to space for their link and banner. Imagine if a sponsor posted prices for stuff, pictures, their own articles about something they are selling. There would be no need for a seperate website to maintain and pay for. I think that was the original intent of the sponsor section to begin with.
I'll begin a discussion in the member section about this and we can decide what to do. We, as in all the paying members, not just the BOD.
Hoepfully I didn't offend anyone. We need revenue for this site, not much, but enough to pay the bills.

[luckysnapper]

Ok so where do I start...


It was never my intention to offend anyone here in this forum or anyone else for that matter but I believe that some here may have A) Misunderstood some of my statements or B) took offense to them. I am referring to the time I made a comment about not wanting to pay $30-$50 a polyp for zoa's which was more directed at the internet sites that I personal feel charge an exorbitant amount for their items.. or the chalice people who charge $600 for a tiny fag that is 1/4 the size of a frag plug. My link The thing is beautiful but dang.. really ? So those statements were never directed toward the LFS who I know has overhead and has to pay for shipping, has to pay employees, and has to worry about dead loss.. Heck running a pet store is a tough business that is why you unfortunately see so many of them come and go. That is why I still buy stuff from Matt's and Aquaria, and the now defunct aqua-farm.

I started out looking for an alternative because I have been in the wholesale world for a long time and knew that there had to be an alternative to retail and wanted to save some money. Who doesn't want to save money ? Especially in a hobby that is expensive as this one. So after buying a few shipments for myself I said hey maybe others would appreciate a savings on livestock. So I offered a few items on the here on the form and a few people like "Mydraal" bought a few things and were appreciative and to be totally honest I more than likely lost money on those shipments after the shipping bill came .. I still don't understand why people would be upset at someone who has taken the initiative to go out and fine away that the entire club could make group buys and save a few bucks.. I think everyone is ok until they find out you might make a dollar or two on the deal and then it all goes to pot..

I have to ask this question since when is it wrong to be an Entrepreneur ? To see a need and want to fill it? Last time I checked it was not wrong to want to run a business no matter how big or small it is. Isn't that what makes America great ?

I really don't want to bicker or squabble with anyone here nor do I desire to climb a water tower to defend my sisters honor, sort of speak or have to post my business license in a public forum for all to see. Oh and just so you know anyone with $30 in their pocket can goto the courthouse and purchase a business license as a sole proprietor and then get a tax ID that allows them to then buy anything they want wholesale.. I could be wrong but I think that Myflorida.com only lists corporations but I could be wrong. OK now I feel like the crazy guy you see on TV that is selling the book that tells you how to get free money from the gov...

In the spirit of peace and good will if it will appease the masses I will limit my posts for goods to the "vendors" section. As I said from the beginning I thought of my local reef guys and gals first but if I am run out of town for trying to help people I can and will go else where although I would rather get to know some of you at the meetings and discuss common topics. SO I know that the mob is fickle and will soon find another innocent soul to attack and flame so I bid you all farewell for the evening.

[Chris]

Maybe they can post a "sticky" at the top of this forum directing them to sponsors and vendors.

[mgarden]

Not an attack, no flame throwing, not hostile to any entrepreneurs just pointing out expenses for a store front. Like I said I dont really care what anyone does - I am not the license police. I also don't work for a store, just take up for them they have a tough business.